posted February 18, 2003 07:57 PM               

In my mind, the BEST story under his tenure is EMPEROR JOKER. It seems to be the most popular and universally liked story under his run in the fan circles around here. Some of his harshest critics enjoyed it.

I'm starting a TPB collection but I held off when OWAW was released out of order in the new Superman line of TPBs. One of the things I found most appealing was that the Berganza-Loeb-Kelly-Schultz-Etc. era of Superman was being collected in TPBs that were numbered. You could put them on a bookshelf and know what order to read them.

However, if I only bought one, it would be Emperor Joker, followed by the Return to Krypton stories.

I've been looking forward to owning an Emperor Joker TPB since NO LIMITS! was released and, quite frankly, while I don't necessarily care about EVERY issue from the last few years being collected, I'm not interested in a TPB collection of Superman at all if I can't include EMPEROR JOKER as a pard of it. It's that big a highlight for me and, I suspect, many readers.

I understand that the decision to collect it is based partially on sales on that storyline... But I would like to point out that when I discuss Superman comics with new fans or those unacquainted with Superman comics, I'm almost always asked to loan out my Emperor Joker issues in particular or asked when the TPB for that storyline will be released.

In an age when comic shops are weeding out their back issue supply to remain afloat and new readers often turn to TPBs of talked about storylines (and many new readers ONLY read TPBs)... It would be a genuine shame not to collect this story.

I suppose the only thing I have to add to this is that given the relative brevity of R2K, if the numbered TPBs are being abandoned and no amount of discussion will change anyone's mind, then PLEASE collect both RETURN TO KRYPTON and RETURN TO KRYPTON 2 in one volume. It's only 9 issues total between the two of them (10 if you include MOS #109, I think). A text page similar to the ones used in the DC ONE MILLION TPB could cover details like why Superman's shield changed colors.

As much as I like the NO LIMITS! collection's completism, the issues surrounding RETURN TO KRYPTON had nothing to do with the story and would be out of place in a TPB. Also, I doubt RTK2 would support a TPB on its own and it would be a shame to only get half the story collected.

If 9 issues leaves room for a few pages extra, instead of filling it with contemporary material that would feel out of place, toss in the 1960s map of Krypton (Seen in SUPERMAN IN THE SIXTIES), the Kryptonese alphabet decoding chart, an intro by Mark Waid, even the ORIGINAL Return to Krypton story, maybe art from Krypto's OWAW SECRET FILES profile or the page from ADVENTURES OF SUPERMAN #700. (Heck, ONCE UPON A TIME would be a great title, especially given the ending.) These kinds of additions would make the TPB more valuable and collectible than a simple cover gallery and would add to the enjoyment of the TPB itself.

posted February 18, 2003 08:11 PM               

Bad assumption.

posted February 18, 2003 08:41 PM            

If that's the case, I think collecting EMPEROR JOKER would be a smart idea since Bizzaro and Ignition both play roles in the introduction of General Zod, and in Ignition's case, OUR WORLDS AT WAR. If the Super-Trades are to help readers get the big picture of what the Superbooks have been doing over the past few years, this storyline may be important to that overall arc.

And as someone who never got the chance to read EMPEROR JOKER when it originally came out, I would welcome a collection.

posted February 18, 2003 10:22 PM               

sorry, but the Emperor Joker storyline was the last straw for this 48 yr old reader! I did pick up .10 Superman issue for kicks, but to my eyes, Scott McDaniel doesn't seem to "work" on that title. Also, I've no taste for all that anime-type stuff -Rouleau, EdMac, with his overweight characters, -yechh!
Mebbe Mike Carlin can straighten that line out!
One man's opinion, of course...

posted February 19, 2003 12:29 AM               

quote:

---

Originally posted by James Friel:

Lots of us haven't read any of those books in years (even decades), and while we might well be grateful for tips directing us to newly-improved titles that we hadn't been aware of (I'd just been going along blindly assuming that the Batman books were still the same crap they were throughout the 90s), it might help to be a little more descriptive and to include issue numbers so the rest of us have some idea what you're talking about.

---

I have included issue numbers in my recomendations, but not necessarily on these boards.

You can check out tec #742 on (743-750 are collected in evolution), written by greg rucka.

You can check out batman #582 on (by ed brubaker, and 588-590 by brian vaughn).

Gothan knights from issue 1 by devin grayson is also good, but goes a bit deep on batman psychological issues, so might not be a good start for returning readers.

For quick samples, try Batman: Huntress/ Cry For Blood (collected in tpb, by greg rucka). I think, even though primarily a huntress story, that is the best, quick example of batman's recent resurgence.

There are some other great single issues, but they're all really part of a larger story, so a new reader may not fully appreciate them (which is why ive been telling bob to get out more bat tpbs).

Some examples are batman #588-590, 591-592, 603, and 604. All could be undertsood w/o reading everything, although theyre much, much better in context of the larger picture.

Also, theres the recent hush, starting in batman #608, by jeph loeb.

And of course, nml started the return to greatness, but its a bit long.

James, if youre interested in checking out some recent bat stuff and deciding for yourself, id recommend some stand alone stuff. Namely Batman: The Long Halloween, its sequel dark victory (19.95 each, but very large volumes), and the pf one-shot Batman: EGO (5.95 i believe).

While these recommendations are not related to the ongoings, i think theyd be good samples of what a well written bat can be, and theyre all stand alone.

Oh, and from what ive heard, many ppl still arent pleased with superman today, while batman gets near unanimous praise (greg rucka, ed brubaker, devin grayson, and jeph loeb can do no worn, although larry hama on batman 575-581 in early 2000 was hated by fans)

posted February 19, 2003 03:59 AM               

quote:

---

Originally posted by James Friel:
I'm noticing lately that a lot of the folks posting requests about recent material, especially from the Batman and the Superman lines, seem to presuppose that everyone reading is familiar with what they're talking about.

Bad assumption.

Lots of us haven't read any of those books in years (even decades), and while we might well be grateful for tips directing us to newly-improved titles that we hadn't been aware of (I'd just been going along blindly assuming that the Batman books were still the same crap they were throughout the 90s), it might help to be a little more descriptive and to include issue numbers so the rest of us have some idea what you're talking about.

---

Lord.... Mr. Pretentious.........

------------------
Rock a little,

posted February 19, 2003 05:08 AM               

quote:

---

I've been looking forward to owning an Emperor Joker TPB since NO LIMITS! was released and, quite frankly, while I don't necessarily care about EVERY issue from the last few years being collected, I'm not interested in a TPB collection of Superman at all if I can't include EMPEROR JOKER as a pard of it. It's that big a highlight for me and, I suspect, many readers.

---

Well said, Patrick. This is one series that just screams out to be collected in TPB form. It's one of the most original and enjoyable multi-part stories to have featured in Superman comics in recent years, and I was quite dismayed to read the quotes from this section over in 'Lying In The Gutters' (at CBR) by Bob Greenberger stating that "'Emperor Joker' was an interesting storyline, but not well-received enough, it seems, to collect.

I cannot believe that this storyline would be less well recieved in TPB form than the average Critical Condition or the upcoming President Lex collection. This story was a wild and original ride that not only reintroduced Bizzaro into the DCU but also featured Batman and the Joker. Surely it warrants a TPB of its own...? It wouldn't make any sense not to release it.

posted February 19, 2003 09:11 AM               

It's appeal to fans of all those characters plus the excellent writing makes it a natural for a TPB.

Even though I have all the issues, I would certainly buy at least one copy of the TPB. And that's not something I can say for many story lines.

WAKE UP, DC!

posted February 19, 2003 10:44 AM            

One tpb for Emperor Joker (which is one of my favorite storylines which introduced a few characters that are now in our DCU again, General Zod and Bizzaro#1). Especially with the upcoming storyline in Action Comics with General Zod, Emperor Joker is the perfect tpb for fans to read so they'll know pretty much everything they'll need to know about General Zod.

Next, Return to Krypton, and Return to Krypton 2 should be one tpb as well. They work hand in hand. It was probably the most anticipated storylines coming from all Superman books because it's something that dealt with his origin let alone decided which will be the overall origin for Superman. In the end, it was a mixture of both, which was really cool, IMHO. Why would there be a demand for it? Because not only were these two storylines one of the best storylines you could read that worked really well between all four of the Superman creative teams but once R2K came out and was a big hit there was the demand for R2k2 and that was an even bigger hit. Why? Because it dealt with part of the Superman mythos that new and old readers wanted to see finally. The creative teams did an excellent job and it should be seen by other potential readers as well as those that loved the storylines back then and want to see a tpb for it.

posted February 19, 2003 11:06 AM               

I would, without question or hesitation (finances permitting) purchase TPBs of Emperor Joker, and both Return to Krypton arcs...

posted February 19, 2003 05:57 PM               

You've got Ed McGuiness drawing just under a quarter of it. You've got Ed's first published drawing of Batman in it.

And you've got Jeph Loeb, DC's top selling writer on Batman writing OVER a quarter of it.

You've got Joe Kelly's first use of the JLA, a book he now writes, along with art by Doug Mhanke in two chapters.

There's the reintroduction of Bizarro.

It's essentially a World's Finest story with an important turning point in the histories of Superman and Batman.

posted February 20, 2003 04:55 PM               

In fact, as someone who doesnt read superman regularly anymore, i wouldnt mind seeing all the arcs in tpb. I cant attest for their quality, however, as i didnt read them. If they really are poor reads (as bob says) then a lot of ppl who didnt read it but want a tpb, wouldnt know.

posted February 20, 2003 06:34 PM            

I hope there is a tpb, since I wanna see how the Joker was able to last more than 2 panels agains my man Superman! My local area sux for back issues...

Zod rulz! He kicked butt in that old movie! I got the DVD for Xmas last year. Superman kicked butt in that one!

posted February 20, 2003 07:17 PM               

EMPEROR JOKER is a nine issue long story (with two double-sized chapters) in which we find out that The Joker has tricked Mr. Mxyzptlk into giving him the imp's infinite power.

Superman awakens in Arkham Asylum in a world reshaped by the Joker's twisted imagination. Bizarro No. 1 is the world's greatest hero and leader of the Joker's League of Anarky... Whose members also include Ignition, Poisonous Ivy, Scorch, Bounty, Dr. Skizm and Enigma. Superman is wanted for murder and Lois Lane is a mild meglomaniacal businesswoman.

Science is outlawed and insaity is the norm.

The story follows Superman as he seeks the culprit responsible for warping reality, attempts to remember the truth about his past and gathers his allies who have been distorted to the Joker's mad whims.

It's a story of heroism and sacrifice in a universe gone mad.

Guest stars include Batman, the Flash, Green Lantern, Wonder Woman, Martian Manhunter, Superboy, Supergirl, Steel, Darkseid, Harley Quinn and the Spectre although virtually the whole DC universe is shown in the Joker's grip.

Five new Superman villains debuted in this story. The Superman/Batman relationship took a twist. Bizarro No. 1 returned.